Looks like some of the “Save Karina Lombard” organisers stumbled on my rant from a while back (“Your Show Belongs to US) and left some comments.
Who is Karina Lombard, you ask? Well, unless you’re watching THE L WORD (The L is for Listless), the lesbian soap on Showtime, you can’t be blamed for not knowing who she is. In fact, I doubt 95% of the people who do watch the show could tell you her name. Anyway, apparently her character isn’t coming back next season and it has a vocal minority of fans in a tizzy. On the Karina Lombard site, the welcome screen reads:
She has given us a priceless gift. The purity of her soul. We are drawn to her reality. Her spirit lives within us. We will not let her go.
Keep in mind, they’re talking about a TV CHARACTER. .. a sexually predatory bartender who seduces a guy’s fiance into the bliss of lesbian love…and, presumably, the purity of her soul. Or, worse, they’re talking about AN ACTRESS… who gives us the priceless gift of performing every scene as if she’s under heavy sedation.
Either way, it’s icky… and creepy.
Thank God Karina, or whoever she plays, can live on in the fanfic.
Hey, now there’s something to contemplate… listless lesbian soap fanfic. I wonder if anyone has started writing the QUEER AS FOLK/L WORD crossover fanfic yet…or,
Ah! To be free of fanfic, but sans a TV/film deal. May all my books sell for huge options that die in development. I’ll mourn the failure in the Bahamas on all that money they wasted optioning the rights from me. (I’ll wake up and tell you about that dream some time.)
Hey, Lee, think there’s Missing slash fic?
I’m CERTAIN of it. I got an email from somebody about “the obvious lesbian undertones” in the relationship between “Jess” and “Brooke.” If I still have it, I’ll post it here.
I just gotta tell you that there is less and less of interest in the overkill television, book, recording industry. When I finally find something or someone that is actually of interest or that provides a reason for me to buy – that’s right, spend my hard earned money to funnel money into the pocket of someone in “one of the industries” – I like to hang on to it.
I happened to love the character that Karina Lombard was playing on the L-Word, but now I have no reason to tune back in.
I’m sad
I couldn’t find the email I was talking about in my archive… but I stumbled on this one that I saved…
“Gloria Reuben and Caterina Scorsone are both beautiful and sexy. Brooke and Jess share glances between themselves, little touches here and there. Sexual tension? Maybe. Their faces get so close and smiles exchange between them, there’s times when I’ve thought that they might kiss and do some crazy lesbian action. PLEASE don’t ruin a good show”
I would like you to know Mr. Goldberg that I am the one who designed the intro picture to the Save Marina web site, and those words were from my heart, and from one writer to another, I am very disappointed that you need to validate yourself in making fun of others opinions. Karina is an extremely talented actress. That is what this is about. And I really don’t believe you know anything about the “character” Marina other than what has been said. Have you watched the show? Do you know anything about Karina? Maybe we don’t know her personally, but it is truly nice to have someone to relate to and to believe in. I am sure you also have someone you look up to and would like to see more of. I think maybe you should stick to writing about things you know more about. Because you are clueless on this issue.
Actually, my wife and I have watched all 13 episodes of THE L WORD. I’m surprised Marina is a character you look up to. I can’t imagine what qualities of hers you admire… her selfishness? Her manipulation of others? Her dishonesty? Or her infidelity?
As an actress, Karina is bland and dull…which I suppose someone could mistake for smoldering sensuality. Her character isn’t nearly as interesting as any of the other regular character…or even the guest-stars. She won’t be missed… atleast not among these two viewers.
“Either way, it’s icky… and creepy”
The only thing here that’s icky and creepy is you!
________________________________________________
“She won’t be missed… atleast not among these two viewers”
Well guess what? These two viewers won’t be missed either!!!
________________________________________________
“As an actress, Karina is bland and dull”
And who are you again???
________________________________________________
Ok, you got what you wanted, attention and I hope I’ve made your day! Oh, and say hello to your wife, I’m sure she is lovely!!!
Hey Lee,
See how the subject of Karina/Marina is like friggin’magic. The mere mention of her name on your “talk about dull” website, spiced it up and got people talkin’ and excited. It’s crazy, isn’t it. Take a note!
Mr. Goldberg:
You have stumbled onto the fans of Karina Lombard. Ilene, Showtime & you all believe we are a few. In the end, we’ll all find out…
You stated, “Marina is a character you look up to. I can’t imagine what qualities of hers you admire… her selfishness? Her manipulation of others? Her dishonesty? Or her infidelity?”
What wrong with a bad person, “its make believe”….People admire Tony Soprano, he’s a lying, cheating, murderer????
You also stated “As an actress, Karina is bland and dull…which I suppose someone could mistake for smoldering sensuality”
Karina has been voted most popular character per the following polls, PlanetOut.com: MARINA # 1; AfterEllen.com: MARINA # 1; Curve Magazine: MARINA # 1; LesbianLife@about.com: MARINA # 1; Mediablvd.com: MARINA # 1
The Karinalombard.net website has had over 174,000 hits to the site since its start up date of 1/24/04.
Karina must be doing something right, we’re all here arguing over her. It’s a known fact that the more someone is loved, the more their hated.
Lee, the interest in Karina whosits is overstated even by Karina whosits fans.. this is from the karinamania group on msn.com talking about your blog:
From: _KarinaMarryMe_ in response to Message 1 Sent: 7/4/2004 9:32 PM
What an asshole! Who the hell is this dude? I’ve never heard of him before!!
I just posted my reply…I bet he’s gonna be nasty…lol…
Please everyone post a reply to his dumb column, we have like 100 members and no one seems to be posting ever..not here, not anywhere!
We gotta fight for Karina and for every fan outthere!!!!!
Bret & Lee:
“Karina whosits is overstated even by Karina whosits fans”
Here’s the facts:
Karinamania MSN Group has 100+ Members
Karinafan65 Yahoo Group has 400+ Members
Karinalombard.net
Savemarina.com
Karinaworld.com
Karinalombard.nl (Netherlands Site)
Karinalombard.com (coming soon)
If your comparing Karina to her co-stars: Jennifer Beals, Mia Kirshner, Pam Grier, Kate Moening, Erin Daniels & Laurel Holloman. Karina has the most dedicated fan sites and groups with the most members.
At least I know from your comments that you’ve visited my web site.
“I’m surprised Marina is a character you look up to. I can’t imagine what qualities of hers you admire… her selfishness? Her manipulation of others? Her dishonesty? Or her infidelity?” What you fail to understand is that our admiration is NOT for the CHARACTER of Marina, but for KARINA Lombard herself. If you’d bother to do any research you’d find that as a PERSON she is very admirable. We admire her spirit and the qualities that SHE as a PERSON has. No, the CHARACTER of Marina doesn’t possess qualities that are generally admirable, except perhaps for the idea of loving without excuses.
Considering you’re a writer I would have assumed that you’d be able to conduct proper research before launching into nastiness. However, that does not seem to be the case with you. You’ve made assumptions about us and about the qualities that WE possess, rather than actually reading what we’ve written and said. Also, as a TV writer I would have thought you’d understand the difference between a CHARACTER and a PERSON. We, as viewers, aren’t living in some kind of alternate reality. We know the difference between the character of Marina and the actress that plays her. Do you?
What do ya think ya are (to the original writer)who wrote THIS piece of trash
“way, it’s icky… and creepy. Thank God Katrina, or whoever she plays, can live on in the fanfic. Hey, now there’s something to contemplate… listless lesbian soap fanfic. I wonder if anyone has started writing the QUEER AS FOLK/L WORD crossover fanfic yet…or, L WORD “slash fic”… where the characters have straight sex!”
Where do ya think ya comin from hey??? Don’t put down Karina or make stupid foolish assumptions about someone you obviously haven’t done much research on! I happen to know she is a fantastic person, and yes most likely nothing like Marina, but from my view, Marina was also a fantastic person who tried her best!! As for lesbians in general, get over your sick homophobic views and get a life! U have no idea about lesbians!
*disgusted snort* and no use replying to me with a silly comment or retort cos I will just plainly keep on at it the more u do the more I will unless I cant be bothered wasting my time after posting THIS message!
Good on u lisa and TT!!!! On your side supporting u all the way!!! I LOVE Karina! We LOVE Karina!!!!
Bret….very, very mature!!! *rolls eyes*.
This will be my last reply, I’m not gonna argue with idiot’s like you. Besides, I really don’t give a rats ass about what you think of Karina Lombard and our actions!
Have a good one!!
Christina,
So… by criticizing the Marina character and Karina’s performance, I must be homophobic. Or, as an earlier poster suggested, working for Showtime and the studio to quash dissent among L WORD fans. I think the character is not that interesting, nor is her performance. That’s all. And I find this campaign to keep both the character and the actress in the show, and the passion behind it, kind of silly.
For the record, I have no problem with homosexuality… I was making fun of “slash” fanfic, which typically puts heteroseuxal characters in homosexual situations (Capt. Kirk sleeping with Mr. Spock, etc.) So, in the case of THE L WORD, I was postulating that “slash” fanfic would put them in heterosexual situations.
Lisa,
I’m sure Karina is a wonderful person, well worth admiring. As an actress, she’s not very interesting.
Lee,
The least you can do it get her name write before you criticize her !!!
You’re right… I have a friend named Katrina, so I keep making the same stupid typo. Sorry about that!
Well, Lee, I think you’ve learned a valuable sociological lesson today. Apparently, people who have unnatural devotion toward an inanimate object (like, say, a character on a TV show) also tend to snort with disgust whilst typing and, oddly, find themselves compelled toward poor grammar. But never mind that. You are an evil person for not liking the character of Carina and because of that, your wife is not nice, you have no career and, of course, no chance of possibly understanding where these people are coming from. I understand the fans of Sigmund the Sea Monster are mad for some comments you made about him after his show was canceled…
Again, I say: Thank god I just write books.
Lee,
I’m afraid you’ve gotten so into the back and forth with Karina’s fans (Yes,I am one) that you have missed the real story…which is not good, because, as a writer, I’d like to think you would be able to get beneath the surface. It’s about the grassroots movements that are taking place all over the country on a variety of subjects. People are tired of feeling powerless and waiting for those who are supposedly “in the know or in a position of power” to be smart or honorable. You may not see it in this instance, but I guarantee you that is what is at the core of this and most of the “little guys banding together to be heard” movements. In this case it may seem silly to some people, but the reason is as valid for TV shows as it is for world politics…people are tired of not having a voice about what they get spoon fed. OK, back to the real world, now!
Scurry,
You wrote: “People are tired of feeling powerless and waiting for those who are supposedly “in the know or in a position of power” to be smart or honorable”
I don’t think that’s the issue here. Irene Chaiken isn’t being dishonorable… she’s writing a TV show that reflects her creative choices. She’s not a government agency or a politician, she has no inherent responsibility to “the people.” She’s a writer, producing a TV show. It’s entertainment. It’s art.
Would you dare to tell a painter what to paint or a singer what to sing? You might not buy their paintings or their albums… but you wouldn’t take out ads in Variety demanding they paint pictures of whales or sing songs about love gone wrong.
This has nothing to do with people feeling powerless and oppressed… it’s about a small number of fans who take the entertainment they are watching far, far too seriously… and who believe television writers and producers serve at their pleasure.
Hey Lee, remember me? I’m the one on your side and understanding what your article said, but, just wanted to let you in on something…
“Would you dare to tell a painter what to paint or a singer what to sing? You might not buy their paintings or their albums… but you wouldn’t take out ads in Variety demanding they paint pictures of whales or sing songs about love gone wrong.”
pssttt….this happened all the time. Off the top of my head, Michelangelo and the Pope, and Johannes Vermeer and his patron, Pieter Claez van Ruijven, just to name two. Although, studying this topic, and knowing how tyrannical these two patrons were, I, personally, would never want to be considered in their light. You know what I mean, always dictating to the artist what they’re supposed to do while holding tightly to the purse strings…nope, I wouldn’t want to be seen as being like any of those types.
Oh, and about:
“…I was making fun of “slash” fanfic, which typically puts heteroseuxal characters in homosexual situations (Capt. Kirk sleeping with Mr. Spock, etc.)…”
I also know what you mean, but I’ve met both William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy, and they both would just chuckle about this whole phenomena. The only actor from ST who got his panties in a bunch over it was Mark Lenard (Sarek).
An interesting thing to know about slash fan fiction that I’ve uncovered in my studies. Do you know how the #1 fantasy for straight men is to see lesbian sex? Well, I’ve discovered that the majority of women who are writing, and reading m/m slash fic are straight women. Now isn’t that interesting? hummm… and nope, my studies have not yet uncovered why this is the case, except to say that perhaps straight women are not that very different from straight men…but thats a whole other topic! 😉
Crystal
After being captivated by this thread, I wandered over to the MSN group mentioned above and found this missive from Karina Lombard’s press person. It says:
“First and foremost, we would like to thank the fans for their
support of Karina Lombard. Karina enjoyed her time on “the L word”
immensely, and is looking forward to new opportunities.
At this stage, we feel that there is little to be gained by running
a third ad in the same vein as the previous two. We hope the fans
will see this point of view, and will act according to the best
interests of Karina Lombard.”
Karina is looking forward to moving on. Karina wants the fans to stop buying ads in Variety. Karina wants people to act in the best interests of her career. To clarify, that means: Hey, crazy TV obsessed people, leave me the fuck alone. I want to continue to work in Hollywood and this stupid campaign of yours is ruining my chances of ever getting another gig. Please, God, don’t turn me into DeForrest Kelly.
Of course, since Lee is actually working for Showtime, The Man, Big Oil and The CIA, this is all probably part of some insidious plan.
Interesting… I wonder why none of the “Save Karina” fans thought to mention that Karina herself doesn’t want to be saved.
Magicflute & Lee:
There is more to this message then you know. This message came from Karina’s Publicist after we emailed them about putting out another ad. We have never done anything without inquiring with Karina’s people first.
There are other letters from Karina’s publicist, lawyer and Karina herself. If you bothered to look its all outlined in detail at http://www.savemarina.com The site you made fun of.
Also the shameless plug, Karina’s Official website will be up this month at karinalombard.com
I hope this is the right forum in which to ask this: Does anyone know if Karina Lombard takes her clothes off regularly in The L Word? Or Jennifer Beals, for that matter? I heard a couple of snippets of dialogue from the show, and felt it wasn’t actually worth fast-forwarding through to get to the sex, especially since Cinemax generally shows some thrilling adventure about a young female cop or PI who has to go undercover as a pole dancer to find her partner’s killer at the same time. But I’m always open to quality television…
Speaking as an obsessive fan of other shows, I’ll often complain about choices and changes made. As I just stated elsewhere, I still haven’t forgiven them for killing off Francie on Alias. And Mary Tyler Moore was never the same to me without Rhoda. But I still watch and enjoy those shows.
If I had my way, I’d write one thing. But then again, I’m not in control, so it really doesn’t matter, does it. 🙂
Magicflute & Lee,
Please get your story straight before you claim that Lombard didn’t want to have her character return. Here’s a message her publicist posted from Lombard in April indicating her own dedication to saving her character:
http://www.dorazioassociates.com/karina
S.Yorio is correct, you’re taking one posting out of context without knowing the full story.
M Kelly
WOW, what a great blog! Being a lesbian and having worked with you, I can say that I don’t think you are homophobic, although you never did like my queer jokes (but that’s for another time).
As for the L- Word, I will say that I like the concept of the show, there are interesting characters, and a solid premise. I would agree in that the writing needs some help. Hopefully, in the second season the creators and show runners will stop trying to prove that a “lesbian-themed” (why does that sound like a theme park?) show can make it and provide a good storytelling experience on a weekly basis. If I could give an example of what the show should try to aspire to I would say nip/tuck. That show succeeds in providing a balance of good writing and hot scenes.
Too bad most if the “save whatsheranme” peeps have no clue as to what slash fiction is all about. It is a fun way to spend the afternoon for sure!
Best,
Tina
Katrina Lombard (Marina on LWord) is my fav actress!!! I heard she is not in Season 2 and i’m VERY disappointed. I will miss her and cannot believe she will not be there…i’m from Vancouver, BC and was looking forward to the new season here.
I hope they re-consider in the future as i may get bored of the other cast members like QAF…
Kel
opps! I said KaTrina – i meant Karina…i’ve had too much Alberta Springs Rye and has made my spelling all messed up.
kel