A reader alerted me to this "blowback" from my Hot Buttons post from last week. Vera, on her blog, thinks an interesting issue got lost in the 164 comments about fanfic the post generated.
He was reporting on a mystery writer’s knees-up and wrote some stuff
about controversial yet unspoken opinions among mystery writers such as
the inappropriately open membership of MWA (Mystery Writers of
America?) and how many mystery writers objected to fan fiction but were
too scared to ever say this to fans. What followed in comments was
mostly the expected back and forth between a reasonable pro-fan-fiction
writer and a crazy-arse anti-fan-fiction writer with some side comments
from other people.But what interested me most of all was that no-one – NO-ONE – addressed
the issue of why the mystery writers weren’t going to bring the subject
up with fans they met at cons and signings and things. These pro
writers Lee references behave as though they believe that the people
who are writing the fan fiction are the people who buy their books, and
all the associated merchandise should they be so successful to justify
it, and that to alienate those fans is to kiss good-bye to income. When it comes down to the line, it’s the bottom line.
So, what do you think? Are authors afraid to speak their minds on controversial issues for fear of losing readers or awkward encounters with fans?
Since I know you’re just DYING for my opinion, Lee (/snark), I would say that it’s not that authors are afraid to speak their minds on controversial issues, but rather that most authors have the good sense not to make mountains out of molehills.
No, I’m not knocking what you’ve posted in your blog about fanfic (well, maybe a little.)
But face it: however much it might annoy or even outrage an author, fanfiction does NOT affect the author’s pocketbook, or their ability to work with their material and control it in the published world. However, to ATTACK any activity by the readers, is indeed to invite a negative impact on sales.
It’s a cost-benefit thing. However, I’d wager that even in this stage in the Internet era, most published writers don’t have more than a passing awareness of their own work’s fanfiction, and don’t consider it worth thinking about in any case.
Of course, if they have serious principle objections to what fanwriters do, they certainly have a right to raise the issue, provide they’re willing to accept the consequences of alienating possibly large numbers of their fans.
Don’t bite the fans that feed you without a good reason. I guess it boils down to every author having to decide whether stopping fanfiction is really worth the trouble of going head to head with the people who buy their books.
Yes. Especially in the scifi and fantasy genres. These are the people who buy their books. Look at you. You’ve become a poster child because you had the *bleep* to say what you think and stick to it, a permanent fixation. Somebody to be ‘kept an eye on’.
Imagine somebody less established, or somebody who wants to be published in a genre that attracts fanfiction writers. It’s tough enough to get published, hard enough to sell the books without having a bunch of, um, obsessed people getting the idea that one is ‘bad’ because s/he doesn’t think it’s nice to steal people’s work and that copyright and infringement protection are Good Things. What if you’d gone further in your speech? Hit on the darker elements of the hobby?
It’s about the bottom line, because after years spent learning the craft, earning nothing but personal satisfaction, hard-to-take critique and a boxful of rejection slips, people like to get paid for it once in a while. So they smile and make nice.
The pen is mightier than the sword and who better to make the persuasive arguments than a bunch of writers? Yet, as a group they tend to be unorganized and the competition is real in a market that narrows daily. Sorry, off my soapbox. I probably owe Lincoln another five bucks.
No, I’m not knocking what you’ve posted in your blog about fanfic (well, maybe a little.)
You call the ranting in your personal blog and all over FW ‘not knocking’?
Sorry, Lincoln. I owe you another five bucks. Apologies, Mr. Goldberg. I’m going to take a cold shower.
Claire,
Please, call me Lee. And you’re welcome to rant. My blog wouldn’t be open to comments if I didn’t welcome some healthy ranting.
You’ve become a poster child because you had the *bleep* to say what you think and stick to it, a permanent fixation. Somebody to be ‘kept an eye on’.
Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I’m hardly “keeping an eye on” Lee, if that’s what you mean, I actually like his blog. I like reading the thoughts of published writers, since I do someday hope to be one, and I particularly like Lee’s because he disagrees with me on such a fundamental issue as fanfic.
You call the ranting in your personal blog and all over FW ‘not knocking’?
Guilty as charged, Claire. As you can see, although I try to be reasonable when disagreeing with people, I have my juvenile moments.
Don’t we all, eh? 😉 Hi, Kettle, I’m Pot, and I’m no blacker than you.
And I think that the reason Lee also posts rants on his personal blog is that he, like me, sees the health in a good dose of ranting now and then.
But how’s this: I promise to at least TRY to keep a civil tongue in my head, even when I disagree (as you know I do.) Can’t guarantee I’ll always succeed, but I will return to making an honest effort.
Um. Maybe because it’s because they’ve been near some of these fanfic discussions and developed the impression that fanfic writers are more than a little self-important. And that someone who is doing something for which (at a minimum) an author’s permission should be asked before publishing, is probably also not someone one could easily have a polite conversation with on the topic.
There also is the problem of how a conversation will be reported back on the internet. I worked at a company with a clientele that were largely online. It amazed me to see the ‘customer complaints’ that people wrote on the usenet lists – often at least 70% lies.
Saying “Hi, I write fan fiction,” obviously expecting respect for it, to a person who struggled and worked hard to get into the professional publishing world, is like saying “I am a deluded freak.” I know the fanfiction writer to freak corrolation isn’t 1:1, but it is high enough that a ‘real’ writer is justified in giving you the brushoff.
I don’t actually have huge problems with fan fiction, as long as it is considered personal writing. It is on a par with journal writing. Would you walk up to a published writer and say “Hi, I keep a journal” and expect them to treat you as an equal.
Coming up with an orignal, creative idea and executing it with excellence is very difficult work. Fanfic writers haven’t met the test.
Having sat on both sides of the issue (‘cuz I’m just that shifty), I take both John Scalzi’s and James M. Cain’s approaches to fanfic. Scalzi believes (which I think you’ve hammered here pretty good from other writers) that if their rabid enough to write their own stories about my work, they’re also buying all the books, DVD’s, merch. I hope someday to be profitably outraged at what they do to my babies.
But then Cain said this, more in reference to Hollywood, but it applies to fanfic as well. “They’ve done nothing to my books. They’re over there on the shelf, exactly as I wrote them.” At the end of the day, it changes nothing. Since legal wisdom says a writer should never read stuff that’s been fanficced from his or her own work, you never really see it, and if you did, what does it change? Will Dave Simon do a McNulty/Rawls slash episode on THE WIRE?* I doubt it.
Where it’s a nuisance, and this was a nuisance when I actually did it, is when those who write it get possessive of it. This I don’t understand. Pink Floyd tribute bands don’t get any credence from Roger Waters for reinterpreting THE WALL. (I know cover bands are kosher, but it’s the closest thing I can come up with in music.) On the other extreme, what artist looks at a forgery of a painting and says, “Damn. Wish I thought to do it like that. Mona Lisa looks GREAT in a bikini.”?
Fanfic lives between those extremes, either forgery or a cover, depending on the creator’s view of it. And the end result is the same. Those who do it need to push or get off the pot in terms of original work. (And most of them need to get off the pot.) As for the original work they’re drawing from, guess what. LORD OF THE RINGS is still the same book Tolkien wrote, the same cartoon Orson Bean voiced in the 70’s, and the same movie trilogy Peter Jackson put together. Not a word or frame changes because someone wrote a story about what happens if Boromir lives.**
*Actually, I’d pay to read that. Hell, I think Dave Simon would pay to read that. The idea is so stupid it’s funny.
**Though the odd hobbit slash I’ve had dumped in my mailbox pretty much ruined anything with Sean Astin in it for me.
And doesn’t it boil down to the author’s choice of what fights to pick? Especially when there’s not all that much he or she could do about the stuff that’s out there.
Harlan Ellison might be a prime example. He’s been battling the people who trade his works on Usenet sites, and I believe he’s been somewhat successful (I haven’t checked). But is it worth the effort to try and force HE fanfic off the Internet? He would do it because he believes in it quite a bit, but would he ever succeed, and is the effort worth spending what little time he has left?
Yes, absolutely, authors are very skittish about expressing thoughts to fans that might make them unpopular. And for good reason, too. Let’s face it, most authors can’t afford to risk pissing people off and losing the sales.
I’ve seen “fans” take advantage of this kindness, too, and it can be sickening.
I’ve seen “fans” take advantage of this kindness, too, and it can be sickening.
How so? (Aside from fanfic. I’m just curious.)
*Actually, I’d pay to read that. Hell, I think Dave Simon would pay to read that. The idea is so stupid it’s funny.
No. You wouldn’t. I’ve struggled through it. There’s not one out there that’s even readable. Unless somebody’s going for high satire, and not many do that well.
**Though the odd hobbit slash I’ve had dumped in my mailbox pretty much ruined anything with Sean Astin in it for me.
Somebody vaguely associated with the FandomJam blog wrote a parody of it a long time ago. I hear she’ll let them post it sometime in the future. Not certain. It’s very very funny. Dr. Seuss. Now ain’t that sick?
Most authors seem to have horror stories (and I’ll confess, I love to hear them) about rude fans accosting them at signings. Lee has shared some of his experiences on this blog.
I was at a writers/fan conference earlier this year and saw a woman harangue a friend of mine for 20 minutes at a cocktail party about how she hated his book. Hated it! And told him in sickening detail why he was a lousy writer.
This guy is a real sweetheart and he took it, listening politely, but I think I’d have thrown my drink in her face.
Later, at the same party, he was telling me and writer #2 about what had happened, and the same woman walked by, pointed at #2, and said loudly, “Now HE’S a real writer!” and walked on.
Gads! (Headshake) I thought that sort of thing only happened to politicians!
What can I say, that’s more proof of why a little civility even in disagreement can go a long way (although by that same token, if I didn’t like the work of an author who was appearing at a convention, I–and I think most SANE and sober fans–would just concentrate on the authors we DID like and let the author we didn’t hear from his/her own fans!). There’s no excuse for that kind of behavior no matter who you are or what you do.
Maybe it’s my Southern upbringing (/sarcasm) I just place a very high premium on professionalism, whether it’s for writers or lawyers or whatnot. Keeping a cool head when others are being obnoxious can only reflect well on you.
(Stepping OFF the soapbox and going to soak my head now.)
Does this mean that imitation is NOT the sincerest for of flattery?
Depends on who you ask, Kitty. 😉
Ah the logic of the self-interested relativist.
Wow. There are authors I’ve read that I didn’t enjoy. When they’re signing, I don’t go to the store. If it’s at the LA Times Book Festival, I just don’t go up and say hi. Since they don’t know me from Adam, it makes no difference to either of us.
Of course, if I were asked, I would tell them I had read but didn’t enjoy their book. But I’d still try to be polite about it. Definitely not spend 20 minutes on it.
Mark, m’dear, such logic works both ways.
Anonymous wrote: And that someone who is doing something for which (at a minimum) an author’s permission should be asked before publishing, is probably also not someone one could easily have a polite conversation with on the topic.
Except that, most of the time, on this blog, it’s the ‘professionals’ being rude, and the fanfic writers being polite. Unless what you meant is that fanfic annoys professional writers so much that they lose sight of simple good manners?
Jim Winter Where it’s a nuisance, and this was a nuisance when I actually did it, is when those who write it get possessive of it.
And I’d agree with Jim here…few things annoy me more than when I read the introduction to a (usually fairly poor) story which starts something along the lines of “xxxx owns the copyright to zzzz, but I own the original characters and I’ll sue you if you use them.” Even I start to wonder if the writer could get more stupid.
David Montgomery: Most authors seem to have horror stories (and I’ll confess, I love to hear them) about rude fans accosting them at signings.
Actually, having been guest liaison for various conventions, I can imagine only too well.
Equally, convention organisers have some tales about the appalling things that guests do, so there’s wrong on both sides. The classic tale is the one where the guest (who was being paid a whacking appearance fee) who spent exactly one and half hours, very unwillingly, onstage talking to fans and who spent the rest of the time on the telephone to a foreign country, at hotel rates, which the (fan run, profits for charity) convention were expected to pay for.
Then there was the guest who drank solidly, again largely on the convention’s money, managing to down 23 pints of bitter in 24 hours. The miracle was that he could still walk. Mind, he did have the advantage of being genuinely entertaining.
Let us not forget also the chap who came back from a foray into the city in which the convention was being held with two underage prostitutes in tow, expecting the convention to pay for separate accommodations for them.
And finally the guest who picked up a woman – not a fan, just someone who was staying in the hotel – on the first day of a convention, and disappeared “sightseeing” for the rest of the weekend. He arrived back just in time to collect what he’d left of his baggage and catch his flight home. He had a lovely trip…the fans whose memberships had paid for him to be there were not impressed.
I often felt that convention running would be wonderful if it could be done without guests – or, on bad days, without attendes.
Yeah but it’s only invalid in one direction.
I’m completely unafraid to say anything to my fans, as long as it’s what I believe. Either they’ll like it or they won’t.
Me, I’m looking FORWARD to the first fanfic based on my stuff. The Japanese are sensible folk; they promote fanfic. They let the fans SELL the stuff, in moderate sized lots. They recognize that the fans PAY for the stuff and that by letting them feel like they’re welcome… they’ll pay for MORE of it.