They Hate Me, They Really Really Hate Me

My brother Tod stumbled on a seething horde of  people who really, really hate me and he couldn’t be happier about it.

They are fucking hysterical. I mean this. I laughed my ass off reading
about their hatred of Lee, their dubious thoughts on me (they are
particularly upset with my poor grammar and word choice and misogyny,
which is basically what Wendy is upset with me about on a fairly
regular basis, but someone liked "Simplify" which thrilled me, as that
is, and always has been, my favorite story)  and then their rants on
other topics happening in and around fandom. I spent about thirty
minutes reading this website and I about pissed myself. I’ve actually
bookmarked it.

UPDATE (2-19-2007): Tod only scraped the surface. There’s much more Lee-hating to enjoy.

16 thoughts on “They Hate Me, They Really Really Hate Me”

  1. Well, Lee, I’ve posted my opinion of your war on fanfic before, including my opinion that, in the great scheme of things, it was too inconsequential for all the brainspace and bandwidth you’ve spent on it.
    But after following that link, I have to say: there is something SERIOUSLY WRONG with these people.

  2. I dunno, they didn’t seem to hate you as much as just find you funny and sort of absurd. Since the group is probably mostly teens, I suspect they find a lot of people funny and sort of absurd — it’s the teen state of being. What’s sad is that apparently someone wandered over to joust with kids.

  3. Lee doesn’t shave his hair off, get tattoos, and flash his private parts, which is why fanficcers find him morally inferior.

  4. “The group is mostly teens…”
    Lamest. Internet. Assumption. Ever.
    Lee, I seriously doubt you are as “hated” at FW as Tod suggested. Believe me, I have seen *members* of the site attacked more venomously than you or your brother.
    I think more people feel that you hate fan fiction authors than actually hate you.

  5. Also, to be accurate, Journalfen is closed to people under eighteen. Many of the commentors in that thread are over forty. And none of them hate you, Lee, because you’re to be depended upon for amusing absurdities on a slow day.

  6. I get a little annoyed at the condescension from both sides, frankly.
    Fanficcers do what they do, for the most part, from love of that universe. What creator doesn’t want fans that engaged? Some creators have different preferences on what fans can and can’t do with that material, and I agree that the default should be to not do it unless the creator has specifically said it was OK.
    But ridiculing fanficcers just for playing in someone else’s sandbox is, on the face of it, absurd. What is “Wicked” or the Pulitzer Prize-winning novel “March” but stories using someone else’s characters? Had Gregory Maguire or Geraldine Brooks written those books about still-copyrighted material, they would be fanfic. The quality would not have changed. Yet many of those who speak out against fanficcers resort to the stereotypes and chuckle over the amount of fanfic crap, implying that a signed contract assures quality. I’ve read a lot of tie-in novels; it most assuredly ain’t so.
    However, many fanficcers honestly believe that copyright infringement is legal as long as they haven’t specifically been told to knock it off, and that’s equally dishonest. Or that, because of their emotional and intellectual investment in the material they have a right to create their own versions that supercedes U.S. Copyright law.
    Anti fanfic people: Not all fanfic is crap, and not all the writers are poster-perfect geeks. Some of the fanfic is better than the official material.
    Pro fanfic people: All fanfic is copyright infringement, stop trying to convince the copyright holders otherwise. Instead, work on convincing them why allowing it anyway is a good thing, respect their wishes if they decline, and work on changing copyright laws instead of denying they exist.

  7. I don’t buy that last false equivalancy.
    “Had Gregory Maguire or Geraldine Brooks written those books about still-copyrighted material, they would be fanfic.”
    If only “if’s” and “but’s” were beer and nuts. That isn’t the case and the quality was a factor in the sale of that new material, aside from being legal. It’s a strange cult-like world these folks have created, I’ll give them that much. As for literature, the original is still the winner.

  8. In the sale, of course that’s a factor. In the definition of fanfic, not at all.
    I’m just trying to separate out the arguments. Is it that fanfic is written and published without the consent of the copyright holder? Legitimate, wholly defensible complaint and (I believe) where Lee is.
    Is it that fanfic is shoddy and substandard? Not always, despite some of the comments here, and assuming that is just as shortsighted as applying a stereotype to any group.
    Is it that you think writing in a universe you didn’t create is lazy or intellectually dishonest? Wow, there’s a lot of legitimate literature out there you must really have problems with…
    What defines fanfic is the presence or lack of a contract. Without it, the story is fanfic. With it, it’s a tie-in novel. Quality doesn’t enter into it.

  9. “I dunno, they didn’t seem to hate you as much as just find you funny and sort of absurd.”
    “none of them hate you, Lee, because you’re to be depended upon for amusing absurdities on a slow day.”
    O RLY?
    “Oh lee, just DIE. You aren’t even funny enough to be entertaining.
    Either that or you and Robin Hobb go get married and pop out twisted, fanfic-loathing larvae.”
    “Oh, Goldberg’s a cuntrag to be sure…”
    “who is this dude? Why does anybody care? Do we really want to be the porn stand-in every time he wants to get his internet-notoriety-lovin’ rocks off?”
    Nope, no hatred there.
    “Many of the commentors in that thread are over forty. ”
    Man, that’s the scariest thing I’ve heard yet.

  10. Those comments are more disgust than anything else. When the community as a whole comes together to declare that Lee Goldberg should drop dead (which I don’t see happening ever), then he’d have a valid reason to say, “Fandom Wank hates meeeee!”
    Oh, for the wiki linking anon:
    That person got it WAY worse.
    Lee has yet to arouse the entire community to anger like that, and I doubt he ever will.

  11. To be completely fair, Lee and entourage hated them first, and much more thoroughly. Plus, they make vicious fun of everyone — it’s sorta what fandomwank seems to be for.


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